Public sentiment towards India's AMCA stealth fighter program is largely skeptical, with concerns around bureaucratic inefficiencies, especially involving HAL, slow timelines, and doubts about indigenous engine development overshadowing some cautious optimism regarding technological progress and collaboration with private firms. Emotions expressed range from disappointment and frustration to a guarded sense of hope for future improvements.

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They are also developing systems like ghatak drone, cats warrior, simultaneously. Yes drones and other tech are becoming important but strategically an aircraft I guess serves different purpose drones serve different purpose (while planning strategy for strikes or defence you want various options). Similar to how we can't completely eliminate human workforce just because AI has been introduced might be some future breakthrough development might change things but at this point of time Aircraft is aircraft and drones are drone. Plus this unmanned manned teaming system where drone will coordinate with aircraft like mothership formation is something interesting to look at, so I guess mk2 (not sure, but obviously if we build it indigenously can be modified)and amca will be able to support this system. Plus this aircraft hardware like engine and all is our weakness, and next generation of drones will also run on aircraft engines then also eventually we have to work on it, like ghatak is being planned on kaveri engine.
This my understanding after reading too many things and observations for a while not an expert.

Cold_1994

The HAL Tejas is already 40 Yr Old Tech and Obsolete, IAF is procuring because they don't have any other alternatives within the Budget allocated.

The AMCA is alteast 20 yrs too late, F22 is now almost 20 yrs old and maybe on the verge of Retirement thats the time we are now trying to build the AMCA and the Engine is still a mystery. Though the French colab  might speed things up on the Engine side but it will still be an unknown entity.

OverRatedBirder

Simple ans no…… if it was world would not be crying to make one.

Old-Client-3468

AMCA is a joke. This entire program is a joke. Mfking bureaucrats pulled out from the FGFA program with Russia, we could have had operational versions of SU57, modified to our needs, flying over our heads by now. These old f\*ks never deliver on anything. Until and unless a serious war happen, like between china and India. Our defence will never be modern and strong. The kind of defense we have now is 'bare minimum'. Fighter jets are just one side of the story. What kind of world class air defense we have? None. Do we have completely autonomous reconaissance drone? No. Those fks always talk about brahmos. Mfker that is also developed by soviet union (p800 oniks). Pakistan is not our enemy, it's a target practice range for our weapons. Our real military adversary is China. Where do we stand against them? Ask yourself.

Full_Government4539

With our own developed technology, we would certainly upgrade the aircraft and other defenses accordingly. We won't need permission from others to make changes in our aircraft.

TheBeast0008

In asymmetrical war , drones have always been a game changer , at least since the 2000s. 15 yrs is not really a big period.f 35 first flight happened almost 20 yrs ago

Professional-Ice3646

Drones wont replace them by 2040, you're getting ahead of yourself. Besides AMCA is meant to be a step in the right direction. Think of like an exam you gave in school. Once the DRDO and HAL master AMCA, they'll be able to work on a 6th generation fighter too. 

No point comparing China and America with India right now. America has had more than 10 times our budget, an established R&amp;D machine and Privatisation for decades now. For the next 15 year's we'll still be losing ground to China and America, Eventually we'll catch up to America. 

We may never fully catch up to china but that's fine because defensively we shall always be at an advantage. As far as war goes, both Pakistan and China have Nukes. Proper war with them would go nuclear, so in the end fighters and drones wont matter as much as air defensive capabilities and nuclear bunkers.

We're working on air defence extensively, but not so much on the bunkers. If somebody was to nuke Mumbai and if we fail to intercept it, India is gone, death of some of the richest people in this country, the city gets wrecked, the economy crashes and the common citizens along with some of the smartest people in the world would have no where to go. A lot of residential buildings especially in areas like Bandra,santacruz dont have even basements to seek shelter in, and out in the open it would mean death.

Professional_Sale489

Lololover09

I have zero confidence we will ever see AMCA from HAL as it is being run currently. There will protypes, test flights and delays and the continued culture of unaccountability at every level.

MammayKaiseHain

No one has a crystal ball, but probably yes. Endlessly upgrading avionics can only go so far, and if the next generation of warfare is all about stealth, then a fifth gen fighter shaped by a design philosophy where stealth is a tradeoff will not do particularly well against the cutting edge.

M0nast1c

That's how Indian Air Force rolls in.   
late

SignificantCap5418

Indian population and politicians have THE biggest shortcoming: keeping changing the goal post, aiming to run fast without learning to walk steadily.

Positive-Ad1859

\&gt; Looking at Ukraine-Russia conflict, drone warfare seems like a cheaper and effective way.

It's cheap and effective because both parties don't have air superiority and the environment is strongly contested. It would be a very different story if either had a "real" stealth aircraft in numbers. The USA has more aircraft carriers than Russia has stealth aircraft. Plus because it will be a big propaganda loss for Russia if they lose one, they don't field the SU-57 often and even when they do it's far behind the lines in safety.

MartianMathematician

For a Drone,Radio Jamming make it difficult to go inside a deep territory , so they use optical fibre ones with low range.

We could have made a Stealth designed one way rocket like propulsion engined supersonic speed flight changing direction like hypersonic missile, flying low undetected with preplanned target achievable deep inside a territory.

Ok-Stuff568

India can’t enter 2030 without export grade military industrial complex. Our transition from 5-15Tn economy needs those exports that don’t exist yet.

[deleted]

The thing is, Failure of Russian Air force is their inability to perform SEAD at the beginning of the war(Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses). if they did it effectively, their air force would have had a free reign over Ukraine and possibly win the war. People often Overrate Russian Capabilities which in some way not their fault. Like people still think of them like the literal soviet Union but their economy is fractured. they still can produce stuff, but they can't do anything That consistent. they can't buy T-14 Armata because they are too expensive, struggle producing T-90s, India has more T-90s than Russia, Like Russia, today is just the 11th largest economy in the world. they are punching above their weight if you ask me. Russia today is just a bone shell of the former Soviet Union.

  
anyways back to they point. Air assets are still very much relevant. just look at Indian attacks on May 10 against Pakistani Airbases, we could maintain pinpoint precision and attack critical infrastructure from our very own airspace. the threats for us in such attacks is Enemy BVR capabilities and Enemy Air Defenses. With Pakistan buying J-35s its absolutely necessary to get 5th gen planes to remain competitive and to maintain air superiority in conflicts against Pakistan.

DANISHKFD

India should consider buying the JF 17, very competitive specs and only $30M a pop with the latest avionics.

makisgenius

It will be the same as India paying $7B for additional Tejas Mk1A in 2025.

Ie yes, obsolete vs the best US/Chinese 6th gen+ UCAVs, but still needed as a workhorse, to cover India’s airspace.

SidJag

Drones and Anti Air tech making manned fighters obsolete would unironically benefit us. We have a strong navy, drones, sams, missile tech, nukes. One of the key technologies we lack is a competent indigenous fighter. If that's no longer needed, it just makes things easier

turboMXDX

Trust history. India holds the world record when it comes to " missing the bus " .. every time and all the time.

Too late India. Dont waste time.

Debunk2025

India would have been better and bought the production rights for the F21. Designed specifically for the Indian needs.

isaacladboy

Thin-Theory-4805

It is 21 march 2147. The belt rebels are bombing the orbital defenses of mars. The alien high council expresses their concern about the situation and are pondering an intervention.
The first flight of the 5th gen indian fighter jet prototype is delayed to 2149.

ultharim

From the article:

&gt;The Security Committee of the Cabinet of Ministers approved the budget needed to move forward with the development of the AMCA, India’s future fifth-generation fighter.

&gt;The AMCA (Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft) project, which aims to develop a fifth-generation, low-radar-signature, multi-role fighter, spawned after India abandoned its participation in the development of the Russian Sukhoi Su-57, received the green light from the Cabinet Committee on Security following the approval of a budget of Rs. 15. Billion rupees under which the Defense Research and Development Organization’s (DRDO) Aeronautics Development Agency will develop the aircraft and its technologies in collaboration with various public and private sector agencies.

&gt;The project includes the construction of up to 5 prototypes of the AMCA by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), expected to roll-out by 2026.

bob_the_impala

Dutch-VanDerPlan

They call anything 5th gen now a days. Lmaoo

chrisfemto_

What's the pro for twin engine midweight fighter?

WaterMirror21

I don't see the problem with having a similar design . Why forcefully make a new one for God's sake when the one which is in front of you works just fine . What is it gonna do with being unique , at the end all it matters is that it fulfills it's purpose , I don't see the need for something to have a unique design

Ambitious-Customer33



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Corruption, Incompetence and Short sightedness.

somuchhaireverywhere

Public wants Freebies, Opposition wants to divide and rule, Ruling party is too high on wins to do meaningful work, Talent goes to Foreign, Job goes to person whose forefather was a shoemaker, Hardworking student gets the rope, Maintenance is running on Chalta hai Chalne do, government work is under the table deals, Law is Hafta do chalte bano, Logistics are running on delays, Governance is running on blame game, Bangladeshis are running through the border and getting citizenship, Middle class is milked like Genshit.

North me J&amp;K extremist terrorism, East me Manipur terrorism, South me Hindi imposition, West me Khalistani popularism. Centre me Diwali ke 20 din baad AQI 1000+( parali jal rahi hai trust), WB me Mamta vote bank import kar rahi hai, Internet pe Inferiority complex (As an Indian XYZ)(Proud to be), Islamic extremism, Christian conversions, neighborhood is entirely Volatile, we're literally surrounded by enemies in neighbourhood(Pak, SL,Kangladesh, Myanmar, Nepal(Oli))

We got loooooots of issues and I don't think they're getting solved anytime soon 

:/

emo_shun

The SU-57 does not exist in a functional role

Why India isn't importing 5th gen fighter?

The current available aircrafts are from Russia, China, US.

China- Won't buy

US- They won't sell

Russia- Look up FGFA program and with current tensions buying such critical tech will be next to impossible.

AMCA project- The only delay was a 1-2 year delay from the bureaucracy, everything is going on just fine for now.

which 5G aircraft can be readily imported ? china won't sell, for obvious reasons.. f22 is never on offer.. f35 series will come so many conditions from USA, su 57 is not ready... everything else is not in production stage..

The only countries with 5th gen fighter jets is USA, China and Russia.

Importing weapons from either of them doesn't seem to be a possibility, we can perhaps go the Indonesia route and fund some other country's already ongoing 5th gen program and get them at a cheaper rate.  
Even the US took about 25-35 years from concept to induction, at that rate, I don't see us getting one till 2045 which is too late.

Familiar_Internet

India lacks critical resources such as Engines and other advanced avionic components. The engine is the main cause of pain. We have not been able to develop the jet engine needed so far. Kaveri is not up to mark.

The developed country already has developed jet engine technology and the point they have reached is still far from our reach, Ex Metallurgy and thermal engineering.

India doesn't want to put efforts in the thing which has been already developed ages ago and thus prefers buying it out.

Lack of expertise, talent being not respected in our country, and lack of private sector inclusion are other factors.

anonymous_panelist

The only valid option to buy from is Russia and theirs is not up to the mark and they cant produce them in sufficient quantities. We have no other potential sellers.

Turkey has experience in manufacturing American aircrafts like the F-16 and specifically spent time and money on developing its aeronautics industry.

AMCA also only got CCS Approval this year. We delayed for years on a joint production program with the Russians only to realise that it was vaporware and wasn't going to work out. Our mistake was waiting far, far too long.

  
AMCA will come along with time. If they have common sense they'll order a massive no. of units to ensure steady production and avoid enginge shortages. Gen 6 is still a while away and we need the experience of building AMCA regardless if it turns out well or not to be able to catch up, which is what the Tejas itself was for.

We can talk about the severe issues India's defense industry has in general but complaining about how we didn't invest in Kaveri engine or failing to follow up on our first jet aircraft at this point isn't productive.

Just get the plane done, then build on that.

  
Also realistically, while far from ideal, it's unlikely that we're going to get into a conventional war with China and/or Pakistan. The balance of power needs to be maintained but we're not at an imminent risk of war.

Nomustang

I think only china and usa have 5th gen fighter jet

KnowledgeEastern7422

The answer is simple. Because India is not convinced of the SU-57's capabilities and they have no other source of 5th gen stealth fighters. F-35s do not get sold to Russian allies. 

It is better to purchase immediately some fighter jets on global tender basis

Scared-Extent-1546

This jet will come in 2040s. I have zero faith in Hal 😞

If i understand it correctly this means no su-57e (maybe I) and no f-35? And maybe no foreign product use in it ? So not like the tejas ?

BestResult1952

8 years from a flying prototype and at least 12 years before it enters service.

Bad_boy_18

They can't even get to 4.5, don't even have the facilities to test jet engines and have shown zero prowress in microelectronics for advanced avionics or EW

  
If this thing even comes out, it will be in 2050 or be another KAAN type project with 4th gen systems shoved into a "stealth" frame

AlBarbossa

Apprehensive-Leg7421

Iggy_Arbuckle

I really don't understand how India made cryogenic engines for rockets that can take spacecraft to land on the far side of the moon, but can't make a competitive fighter jet.

krishnakumarg

What about the possible acquisition of the SU57 stealth jets? Is that plan put in the back burner, despite reports that Pakistan is soon getting J-35s?

No-Wash722

As long as India knows what it's doing, the AMCA, even if it appears later, can cultivate India's research capabilities.

**Personally**, I believe Pakistan's lack of strategic depth and economic scale will be increasingly exposed over time, given India's sheer size and population potential.

AnnaOffline

What’s the point of India making the shell of the plane when you can’t make your own engine.

If India can make space rockets, in theory they should be able to make their own engines.

Broad-Carrot-9424

https://preview.redd.it/maocvx9iof3f1.png?width=1080&amp;format=png&amp;auto=webp&amp;s=2034249af225701537f935488633366a4165a8e5

Check my username

HAL_AMCA

I pray everything goes according to plan and we see this thing rule the skies 🙏

Professional-Door824

Kaveri engine ko blue light bhi dedo peeche se

kalyan_ka_hero

Private players need to be involved, otherwise it will end up being what became of Tejas. Remember, the Tejas program went into the execution phase back in 1984.

Flaky_Entertainer526

&gt; While the execution model has now been formally approved, the clock is ticking on what will be India's most technologically demanding aviation programme to date.

We'll see. I predicting 2045-50

aaffpp

India might be able to produce one prototype... But I don't think 🤔 they will go in full scale production till other private players are involved... Considering the kick backs politician and higher up officers receives from foreign defense companies.

It's going to be horrible there's no point in trusting hal to do anything it'll probably be another failure like the tejas probably would be delayed like 20 years

gamesandspace

Waste of money and time. Future wars will be fought by swarms of drones not expensive fighter aircraft

delicatefucker

India is advancing its Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program to develop its first indigenously-designed stealth fighter jet, aiming to counter growing regional threats.

India's AMCA Stealth Fighter Program

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